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Ramia Lloyd:
Welcome to the TechTrends podcast, where we discuss the latest manufacturing technology, research, and news. Today's episode is sponsored by MFG Conference. Hi, guys.
Benjamin Moses:
Guys.
Elissa Davis:
Hello.
Benjamin Moses:
Steve.
Stephen LaMarca:
Like, share, and subscribe.
Benjamin Moses:
Jumped the gun earlier there, that's good. I want to talk about SHOT Show.
Stephen LaMarca:
Yeah.
Benjamin Moses:
Why did we go to SHOT Show?
Stephen LaMarca:
We went to SHOT Show, because it is a manufacturing industry adjacent show, and... I'm going to give them the long answer, I'm sorry. I don't know the short answer. The long answer is I went back in 2023 and I was blown away by a part of the show called The Supplier Showcase, and the Supplier Showcase was a very small part of the show and most of the SHOT Show audience would probably think it's boring, but those people are dumb and ill-informed, because it was the best part of the show, in that it was where all of the manufacturers, our members and potential members, were showing off their manufacturing technologies to make the parts and the stuff that went into the main show and the main floor that everybody else mostly cares about.
Benjamin Moses:
Right. There are two trends that I was keeping an eye on for, in terms of technology advancements. One is I think Additive has made a really big progression into the defense and firearms space.
Stephen LaMarca:
Additive has not just made a huge progression, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but it's found its home in the defense industry.
Benjamin Moses:
The home, wow.
Stephen LaMarca:
It's found its home in defense, and I know that bothers a lot of people. It's like, "Tough luck, cookie."
Benjamin Moses:
Well, Elissa will have an article on that, too, but I agree. The underlying concept that I've been experimenting with is I think Additive has a lot of opportunity for products that can use gas optimization. The main use cases that we've seen are suppressors, right?
Stephen LaMarca:
Yes.
Benjamin Moses:
You're capturing the gas at the end of the firearm to minimize the sound at the end, but instead of using traditional processes, you're printing the entire suppressor to get that super-optimized gas flow path.
Stephen LaMarca:
Yeah. Every use case where Additive has been employed to optimize fluid dynamics, mostly in jet engines and in rocket engines, as it turns out, if you make that same thing smaller and send a bullet through it, you make a great suppressor.
Benjamin Moses:
Also, material sciences have come a long way just on the uniqueness of new materials. We talked to Carpenter on the main show floor for a little bit about new materials they're using for barrels and things like that, so they want stuff that's harder, tougher, which are seen in other cases too, but a lot of composites also. We saw composite suppressors, which is interesting, because it's counterintuitive, because it's at the end of the barrel, which is literally the hottest part of the firearm, which you have a composite suppressor.
Stephen LaMarca:
Yeah. Well, I wouldn't say it's the hottest, but it deals with the most pressure flux at the end. No, temperature flux at the end, but more importantly... With all of these Additive suppressors coming to the market, which is making suppressors more accessible, it's inducing a lot more pressure back into the system that wasn't normally there, because it's back pressure, it's the same thing that you get by putting a big muffler on a car. It sends some back pressure back towards the engine. In the use case of semi-automatic and automatic firearms, self-loading firearms, this added pressure is great for speeding up cycle times and short-term reliability, but that pressure spike in those faster cycle times also induces a lot more wear and tear on the system, and the best way to mitigate that is more advanced materials, which was brought to us by Additive.
Benjamin Moses:
Also, another negative impact we're seeing quite a bit is, because traditionally-manufactured suppressors, the increased back pressure, there's also a lot more debris coming back to the operator. Now you see spatter and lead pieces and unexploded gunpowder being pushed back in the chamber, which is being pushed back into the operator or a person.
Elissa Davis:
That sounds not good.
Benjamin Moses:
It's not pleasant. One of the benefits that we've seen with the Additive parts is they allow better flow being exited the suppressor.
Stephen LaMarca:
Ferocity is welcome. Putting more rounds through it, it makes the suppressor stronger.
Elissa Davis:
Can I ask a logistical question?
Stephen LaMarca:
Sure.
Elissa Davis:
In terms of suppressors. When you fire a gun, because I've fired a nine-millimeter at the range and stuff like that, obviously there's just the general kickback, right? Having a suppressor on there, does that increase it or decrease it? Because if you're doing something with the pressure...
Benjamin Moses:
The felt recoil is different, because you do have a weight at the end, so that helps to minimize it, but also is capturing gas and redirecting the gas in a different direction, so it does reduce the felt recoil in some scenarios.
Stephen LaMarca:
Felt recoil. At the end of the day, when you look at the physics in a free-body diagram, you are sending something downrange and the force used to send that projectile downrange must equally be acted on the person holding the weapon. On the weapon and thus the person holding it. Regardless of what you do to it, if that projectile's mass and its acceleration through the system to make its muzzle velocity stays the same, no matter if it's suppressed or unsuppressed, the recoil will be the same.
Now, that inertia can be spread over a different moment by adding different components to the system, by adding weight to it, so it will feel different, but from an energy standpoint, the energy going down range has to happen to the person putting that energy down range to in the opposite direction.
Elissa Davis:
Right.
Stephen LaMarca:
Does that make sense?
Benjamin Moses:
One other-
Elissa Davis:
Yes.
Benjamin Moses:
... area we've hit on is Additive is making big progress, material is making great progress, but there's still a really big need for automation. We saw a couple of companies that have automation capabilities, but I think automation is one of the biggest opportunities in terms of the supplier showcase that I didn't see a lot in. Saw a couple of our members there that supply components for automation, but in terms of a manufacturing sector that is ripe for... I wouldn't say mass production, but from munitions to components for firearms, I think automation has a lot of opportunity there.
Stephen LaMarca:
Yeah, especially work holding. We saw a lot of potential in work holding, and we even got... From our friends at Royal Products, they even told us the small arms industry was really excited about all of the solutions that the manufacturing industry brought, in terms of work holding to the market. A little sticker-shocked by it, but there's a lot of potential there.
Benjamin Moses:
Yep.
Stephen LaMarca:
Both parties were really excited about that, which was fun to hear.
Benjamin Moses:
Can we do the hard transition to Pilates?
Ramia Lloyd:
I feel like there's got to be a decent overlap between the two, Jojo and Pilates.
Benjamin Moses:
No, no, no. Just black and white. The reason I'm bring it up, today's your first day, right? You went to your first session-
Stephen LaMarca:
Last night was my first-
Benjamin Moses:
Last night?
Stephen LaMarca:
Last night was my first class.
Elissa Davis:
Is your whole body hurt today then?
Stephen LaMarca:
Yeah, full body sore.
Elissa Davis:
Cool.
Stephen LaMarca:
Totally a full body sore.
Elissa Davis:
Cool.
Stephen LaMarca:
It is akin-
Ramia Lloyd:
Pilates works nice.
Stephen LaMarca:
It's a good sore, because... The soreness that I associate it and can relate it to the most is my first time snowboarding, because your first time snowboarding, you get sore, because you're working out muscles to maintain balance that you never knew you had and have been dormant your entire life until your first time snowboarding. It's different and not as bad, because A, you don't have an astronomical lift ticket to pay for and a bunch of gear to pay for, but also, B, there's no impact. I mean, unless you fall at solid core, definitely a thing that could happen, I didn't see it, thankfully it didn't happen to me, but there were a few times it's like, "Whoa. I'm getting a workout just making sure I'm not falling."
Ramia Lloyd:
Yeah.
Benjamin Moses:
I think that is the benefit of Pilates, that it is almost no impact, right?
Elissa Davis:
Yeah, except for the next day.
Benjamin Moses:
Unless you fall.
Elissa Davis:
Yeah. Have you guys seen the SNL sketch of the Pilates? It's a parody on Megan, I think. It's the Pilates instructors and it's like... I've never felt more seen than when it's like, "You won't be able to hear a single thing they're saying," because I did one solid core class, because my sister does solid core almost every day. She's been doing it for years, she loves it, she swears by it. She loves it so much. I did one class with her and, mind you, it was not like a beginner class, it was an intermediate class, because she had been going for a while. Yeah, and the woman's just like, "Hey, do this, do this," with the machines, and I'm like, "I think I did it right," and then my sister would reach over and change it, and I'm like, "Okay, I guess not," but I couldn't hear single thing she was saying. Over the music and the machines, you can't hear anything.
Stephen LaMarca:
The playlist? Fire.
Ramia Lloyd:
Yeah.
Elissa Davis:
Yeah.
Stephen LaMarca:
The lady, our instructor was so great, because going in, I was very transparent with... I was just managing expectations. I was like, "Listen, I'm the least athletic person you've ever met in your life, ever. I am going to need-"
Ramia Lloyd:
"Ever" is wild.
Stephen LaMarca:
Ever. "I'm going to need help," and she was just great. She's like, "Thanks for telling me. Yeah, I've got you. I'm going to ensure that you have the best time possible, and I obviously want you to come back, so I'm not going to make this miserable for you, but you're going to feel it." She was right about everything and she was amazing. I think her name was Mimi. She adjusted all of the things she was talking, didn't understand a word. Chloe described it as, "They're speaking in tongues." They are. There's a bunch of other people there and they've all been there for so many classes before.
Elissa Davis:
They're all definitely moving the machines around and doing everything perfectly.
Stephen LaMarca:
Mimi was handling my machine for me, making all the adjustments. Awesome, awesome experience, but she was also like, "Just look around you, because everybody else has done this before and they know what I'm saying. The whole idea of the mirrors is, if you don't understand what I'm saying, you look at the other people to see what the example is," and it was really cool like that. It was a fun time.
Ramia Lloyd:
My leg's cramping just thinking about it.
Stephen LaMarca:
Oh, man. The cramps? Dude, I definitely got a charley horse in the arch of my foot and I was like, "How does that even happen?"
Ramia Lloyd:
I just knew it, the flexing-
Stephen LaMarca:
It would've been so much worse if all of you people didn't tell me all day yesterday to stay hydrated. I was drinking water all day yesterday, and I still managed to get a charley horse in the arch of my foot.
Ramia Lloyd:
I've been like, "No."
Elissa Davis:
If you're not using it all the time, then it's going to hurt when you use it.
Stephen LaMarca:
I will say, I did pretty great on the upper body part.
Ramia Lloyd:
Good job.
Elissa Davis:
Very nice.
Stephen LaMarca:
I was like, "Guys, this is what you do. This is what you do. You guys can focus on the butts, I got the glam muscles."
Benjamin Moses:
Before we get into today's sponsor, Elissa, I think our podcast hit a milestone?
Elissa Davis:
Our office email has a quarantine page where it sends things that things are spam or phishing emails or whatever. I don't look at all of them, but I was glancing through it a few days ago and I saw one that said, "Congratulations, your podcast on being one of the top 100 manufacturing podcasts," and I was like, "What?" At first, I was like, "This is definitely a scam," but I still wanted to see what the email was, so I let it through. Sean, don't kill me, because it seemed relatively legit from what I could see. I was like, "Okay, if I open it, it probably won't do anything. I just can't click on anything unless..." Whatever, anyway. Sean, don't kill me.
Ramia Lloyd:
Later, we're going to talk about cybersecurity risk.
Elissa Davis:
I opened the email and it was like, "Hey, my name is..." It was the guy who runs this website, Feedspot, and he was like, "You've been selected as one of the top 100 manufacturing podcasts." I was like, "Oh, my gosh," and so I clicked the link. Sean, please don't kill me. Yeah, and we were number 14 on the list of top 100 manufacturing podcast.
Ramia Lloyd:
Just know, number one through 13, be ready to squabble up.
Stephen LaMarca:
Like, share, and subscribe and comment.
Benjamin Moses:
She was rolling up the sleeves, because [inaudible 00:13:44].
Ramia Lloyd:
I'm ready.
Benjamin Moses:
She's ready now. That's exciting, I'm very excited for that. We've made some big progress.
Elissa Davis:
Yeah, but I still wonder why they sent me the email.
Benjamin Moses:
Yeah.
Stephen LaMarca:
I think they probably sent it to all of us.
Ramia Lloyd:
I was just about to say.
Stephen LaMarca:
Nobody else checks [inaudible 00:14:02].
Elissa Davis:
I was going to say, that's probably what it was.
Ramia Lloyd:
I don't even think I have a quarantine.
Elissa Davis:
Well, because I've seen important emails come through quarantine before, so that's why I tend to check it, because sometimes it just gets stuck in the filter. I check it every once in a while just to be like, "Let me make sure there's nothing important that's come through."
Stephen LaMarca:
Ready for the worst unsolicited advice on this podcast ever? Every now and then, it's worth clicking on a sketchy email.
Elissa Davis:
Sean, please don't kill me.
Benjamin Moses:
Ramia, can you tell us about today's sponsor?
Ramia Lloyd:
I know. The MFG Meeting brings together manufacturing technology industry leaders to address key business challenges and provide actionable solutions. Sessions cover a wide range of topics, including workforce, economics, supply chain, leaderships, politics, and more. The unique meeting experience provides unparalleled opportunities to network with executives from companies that make, sell, service, and support manufacturing technology. These peers and competitors will learn from each other, build long-lasting connections, and share insights that will benefit their business. Go to amtonline.org/events to register.
Benjamin Moses:
Thanks, Ramia. We can also talk about cyber security and clicking random links and all-
Ramia Lloyd:
Yeah.
Elissa Davis:
Again, it wasn't random. It looked legit. When I opened the email, it looked legit, and so...
Ramia Lloyd:
I'm going to send you Smart(er) Shop season two, episode three. Ryan Kelly's got some things to say.
Elissa Davis:
He's going to pull me aside tomorrow and they're going to be like, "Can we have a chat?"
Ramia Lloyd:
They're just going to start sending you phishing emails.
Elissa Davis:
Well, because Sean lives with you, Steven, so he's going to find out.
Stephen LaMarca:
Just tell them to comment, subscribe.
Elissa Davis:
Comment your problems with clicking on fishy links.
Benjamin Moses:
The solution is going to be just quarantine Elissa, not her emails.
Elissa Davis:
Yeah.
Benjamin Moses:
Steve, tell me about generative AI versus agentic AI.
Stephen LaMarca:
Yeah, let me look this up.
Ramia Lloyd:
[inaudible 00:15:46] this real quick.
Stephen LaMarca:
Forbes published an article, generative AI versus agentic AI. The key differences everyone needs to know. It's super long-winded, but basically, it boils down to generative AI creates content based off of a data set that it has access to, whereas agentic AI, in contrast, can act autonomously to achieve goals and make decisions within the parameters that it's programmed with.
Benjamin Moses:
I'm going to be real snooty about this. There is a conversation online about creating versus generates.
Stephen LaMarca:
Yeah.
Benjamin Moses:
They're using the word "Generates content" as opposed to "Creates," just because of the nature of it.
Stephen LaMarca:
Are you nitpicking?
Benjamin Moses:
I am nitpicking you.
Stephen LaMarca:
Heck yeah.
Benjamin Moses:
But I agree with you, I think the underlying thing, and I think you got some really good examples about, is the decision making. The generative AI, you put in information and says, "This is what I would recommend. Send me an email or provide an email to such and such on this topic," and tail the conversation. Agentic acts on your behalf, and I think that's an interesting next step-
Stephen LaMarca:
Yes, yes.
Benjamin Moses:
... we're seeing
Stephen LaMarca:
No, absolutely, and I had OpenAI distill this to 200 proof, and it basically boils down to... Yeah, while generative AI produces, agentic AI executes. One makes, one does.
Benjamin Moses:
I think the example that we talked about was self-driving cars. The car is an agent of you, because it's making all decisions getting down the road.
Stephen LaMarca:
Agent.
Benjamin Moses:
Agent, agentic-
Stephen LaMarca:
Versus generative. Wow, it was in the name.
Benjamin Moses:
There's no ambiguity about names here. No, but that is an interesting thing that... I read across a video where they're talking about new tools where the agent is getting information, or the AI tool is getting information. The latest iPhone is getting information from your screen, right?
Stephen LaMarca:
Yeah.
Benjamin Moses:
If you just want to circle something or, say, "iPhone, what is this thing on this page?" It knows what's on the page, because it knows what's on the screen. I did see a program or an application online where the AI tool is looking at your computer screen, your desktop, and will actually launch programs, do stuff on the computer itself on your behalf. It's truly an agent acting on your behalf, running programs, typing stuff... Not typing, but filling in emails and stuff like that. It was just weird and interesting. What's the point of this? Why do you even need a screen at that point? The ability for AI to execute stuff for you, that's a dicey scenario in the future.
Stephen LaMarca:
I'm glad you got to it before I did, because I was going to say, you know what this is? This is my tinfoil hat, because agentic AI is about to act on the terms and conditions that you agreed to and did not read.
Benjamin Moses:
Yeah, yep. That's the other thing I think we need some reformation on.
Stephen LaMarca:
We need lawyers. Everybody needs a lawyer.
Benjamin Moses:
I need to see the IUL agreement before I go to the website or before I buy something.
Stephen LaMarca:
Is that what the cookies thing is?
Benjamin Moses:
No, no. That's their defense.
Ramia Lloyd:
Cookies is different.
Stephen LaMarca:
That's their defense.
Benjamin Moses:
I need the EULA in three bullets. Have you scrolled through a EULA before?
Ramia Lloyd:
Yeah.
Benjamin Moses:
It is a nightmare.
Ramia Lloyd:
It's insane. The big ones are the worst ones, obviously. They're 500 pages. They know no one's going to read that, so you're-
Elissa Davis:
What's a EUL?
Benjamin Moses:
End User License Agreement.
Elissa Davis:
Okay, cool. It was an acronym.
Stephen LaMarca:
I am positive that all of those terms and conditions, TOCs and EULAs-
Benjamin Moses:
Table of contents.
Elissa Davis:
Thank you.
Ramia Lloyd:
I was going to say, "Tears of the kingdom?" But that's K.
Stephen LaMarca:
Why do they call it that in Twitch then? I don't know. The Twitch streamers, they have no brains to begin with.
Benjamin Moses:
That's a next area opportunity, streaming on Twitch.
Ramia Lloyd:
I'm going to post this on Twitch and see how many comments we get.
Stephen LaMarca:
Tell them to squabble up.
Ramia Lloyd:
Yes.
Stephen LaMarca:
I was just thinking, how many of those... When you go to a website and the thing pops up in the lower third, "Accept all cookies, decline all cookies," whatever, sometimes it doesn't even give you the option to decline. Sometimes it says "Accept all" and then "Customize," and nobody's clicking on "Customize," but I can't help but think, in that box, there's a fine print somewhere that links to all of the things that you're agreeing to, and when you click "Accept all cookies," there's probably a fine line somewhere saying, "You're also agreeing to our EULA."
Benjamin Moses:
That's how they seal your title for your house.
Stephen LaMarca:
That would not surprise me. That scares me, dude.
Elissa Davis:
I own zero assets, so I'm not that concerned.
Stephen LaMarca:
I think that's what's going to defend us.
Ramia Lloyd:
The fact that none of us can buy anything?
Benjamin Moses:
3D printing. Elissa, I think you found a good one that brings back to printing 3D homes or houses or barracks.
Elissa Davis:
I'm an Army brat myself.
Benjamin Moses:
Yep.
Elissa Davis:
I was going to say I was born and raised in military bases, but technically, I was born off-base, because there was only a clinic on base at Fort Meade, there wasn't a hospital.
Benjamin Moses:
Fair.
Elissa Davis:
Yeah, but I was raised in the military. I lived in military housing the first chunk of my life. At Fort Bliss in Texas, the Army revealed a new 3D-printed barracks and it holds 72 soldiers, and it's made with mold-resistant materials and it's engineered to withstand various environmental challenges, including severe weather and seismic activity. It's a collaboration between the DOD and ICON, an Austin-based construction technology firm, and they used a 3D printer to make the buildings out of Lavacrete, which just sounds cool.
Benjamin Moses:
That's cool.
Ramia Lloyd:
That is cool.
Elissa Davis:
They look really nice, and as someone, again, who grew up in military housing my entire life... This is something that I've been told by people in the Army. I'm not going to say my dad, because I know he'll get mad. My dad always told me I should join the Air Force, and part of the reason is because, when the Air Force creates bases, they build their housing first and they build their facilities second, so the housing tends to be really nice, right?
Benjamin Moses:
Okay.
Elissa Davis:
In the Army, it's the opposite. They tend to lift their facilities first and then, whatever's left over, they'll use to build housing.
Benjamin Moses:
Gotcha.
Elissa Davis:
The housing I was born in, a lot of it was not remodeled at all after the 1940s, around World War II is when a lot of them were built, and they stayed that way.
Benjamin Moses:
I was going to say, for me, it is a base that they used to train World War II soldiers on a long time ago.
Elissa Davis:
I lived in a small little brick building at Fort Meade, I just have pictures of it.
Stephen LaMarca:
This is incredibly explained so much now, because one of the guys that I game with every night, Josh, is ex Air Force JSOC, and he's lived in Portugal and Mallorca. He has sent me Snapchats and pictures of his house that he lived in both of those places, and it was divine. I was like, "What rank are you?" He was like, "A sergeant," or whatever they have in it. I was like, "Wow, where did they put up the officers in?"
Elissa Davis:
I will say, on Army Base now, they have torn down a lot of the homes that were being used when I was a kid, and they now have built actual houses instead of just concrete duplexes, which is what a lot of them were, or brick duplexes. That stuff would've been nice when we were living it, but there's-
Benjamin Moses:
A side tangent. I used to go to Fort Meade, they had a collaborative shooting club where they had half defense and half civilians, and they led us on the range. Then I'm talking to some of the range officers and realized the 1600 rings they were shooting on was the same one that they trained World War II soldiers before they headed out overseas. The fight is they trained the soldiers there to shoot for World War II, so it's a very fascinating history of Fort Meade, and that contribute, because we're talking about all the lead that we're shooting. I was like, "No, no, there has been lead in there for like 100-some years. It's fine, it'll be okay."
Stephen LaMarca:
Yeah.
Elissa Davis:
Yeah.
Benjamin Moses:
The other thing I think find really interesting is where the defense is headed, in terms of rapid deployment. Not only are we seeing manufacturing being able to put in a crate and put that crate somewhere, so you can get a full manufacturing facility, but obviously, rapid deployment of... If I could print a barracks, hopefully it can be permanent or semi-permanent, right? Where it fits the need, you do something else, and you move on and then do something else with that.
Stephen LaMarca:
Especially if it's fortified. It's going to be permanent enough.
Elissa Davis:
They're going to be nice, and that's part of it too, is that there is this... Because I think that, in some ways, their recruitment isn't as high as it used to be in the military branches, so they want something to entice them, and part of that is housing.
Benjamin Moses:
Yeah.
Elissa Davis:
If you live off-base, you are given a housing allowance if you have a family, and sometimes that can cover your costs, sometimes it can't.
Benjamin Moses:
Sure.
Elissa Davis:
In terms of this, so Fort Bliss, they have it's up and working. I assume, by now, they have soldiers living in it, and now the Army is exploring ways that 3D printing technology can be used abroad in combat situations. Personally, I think they should just be using it to rebuild houses abroad, because one of the houses I lived in Japan has been condemned and torn down in the 22 years since I lived there. It was built right in the 1950s, shortly after World War II.
Benjamin Moses:
I was going to ask, what are your thoughts on what are the next steps for Army on... Not just Army, but defense and the Army Corps of Engineers, how they can use this in the future?
Elissa Davis:
Like I said, the housing is great, and as someone who grew up in the housing, having nice... The house I lived in that was condemned, it was nice, but it was also cockroach-infested and old and squeaky, and all that stuff. Most houses overseas don't have ovens that are big enough to fit an average-sized turkey, which is why, in Japan, you get KFC on Christmas Eve, because you can't fit a ham or a turkey in the oven.
Benjamin Moses:
That's fun. Yeah.
Elissa Davis:
Yeah, I mean, in terms of actual defense and combat situations, I personally am not well-versed enough in that, I think, to be able to speak to it.
Benjamin Moses:
I think this does set us up for being able to build structures. Instead of taking a barricade, being able to print a barricade or something along those lines, but also, I mean, we see a lot of effort on the Army Corps of Engineers within the US. If there's a disaster, being able to print homes for a year to get us past that disaster, I think there's a lot of opportunity where being able to print something on-site to solve a short-term solution, or a long-term solution. The state of our bridges has been a big concern. Is there scenarios where we could support... To be fair, our infrastructure is aging, so how do we leverage this for our infrastructure?
Elissa Davis:
Yeah.
Benjamin Moses:
I've got an article from Caliber on humanoid robots. Okay, so this is an interview and they pull some information from a company called Figure, and the CEO is talking about, in the next four years, they want to ship 100,000 humanoid robots. 25,000 a year.
Elissa Davis:
That's a lot, that's too many.
Stephen LaMarca:
Four years?
Elissa Davis:
Extreme numbers
Benjamin Moses:
There's two sides to this.
Elissa Davis:
I wonder if they're in cahoots with Elon Musk, who said there was going to be more humanoid robots than people by 2030.
Benjamin Moses:
2030?
Elissa Davis:
Yeah, I think is what he said.
Benjamin Moses:
[inaudible 00:27:45] that goal down right here, 2030. There's two sides to that I'm torn on. One, I really like the time to market for these guys. I mean, Figure's super aggressive about getting a technology to market, which if you take some of their, I'll say, software background, where you're allowed to go to market with a defective product and fix it as you go into production, I think they're taking that approach to this, where they want the humanoid robots to be safe, of course, but learning on the fly. It's going to make mistakes or be tailored to that application. At the same time, why do we need so many humanoid robots? I still don't understand-
Ramia Lloyd:
The picture that they put on this article is extremely scary. I just want to show you all how terrifying this looks. Why would they do this?
Benjamin Moses:
To scare you.
Ramia Lloyd:
Yeah.
Elissa Davis:
They should Photoshop our faces into that for the thumbnail.
Ramia Lloyd:
That's going to be our thumbnail.
Stephen LaMarca:
Also, when we talk to actual industry experts who work for actual robot companies that make money and sell robots, a lot of them don't speak as highly of cobots as they do industrial robots. Sure, a cobot is safer in some aspects. I mean, a cobot can be more dangerous if you put a knife or a gun in its gripper, but it depends on who's using it and how they're programming it, it really determines safety. You can have an industrial robot safer than a cobot stock, but a lot of the pushback on cobots has been, "Well, they're just not as capable, because they're meant to be more user-friendly, lightweight, and safer by default."
Benjamin Moses:
There's a trade-off you have to make.
Stephen LaMarca:
If you actually knew enough and had more capital to begin with, you could make an industrial robot just as safe and infinitely more capable than a cobot. If a lot of them, for lack of a better term, a cobot in terms of capability is a downgrade, then how much of a downgrade is a humanoid to a cobot?
Benjamin Moses:
That's what I'm wondering, if they just need so many humanoid robots, because they're so... Basically, you need two humanoid robots to fill a task that one person could do.
Elissa Davis:
Yeah.
Stephen LaMarca:
Who's going to buy them?
Benjamin Moses:
That's what-
Stephen LaMarca:
Who's buying humanoid... Comment down below, who's buying the humanoid robots?
Ramia Lloyd:
While you're commenting, like and share.
Benjamin Moses:
The article they talk about there, two main focus areas is commercial and home.
Elissa Davis:
I don't want a humanoid robot in my home,
Benjamin Moses:
That's what I want to ask you guys.
Elissa Davis:
I don't want that, sorry.
Stephen LaMarca:
Okay, but all right, while I am on the same page-
Benjamin Moses:
You want to do the dishes?
Stephen LaMarca:
I spend $180 a month for cleaners to come in, how does that compare to a humanoid?
Benjamin Moses:
Would you rent a humanoid robot to do that?
Ramia Lloyd:
Would you just have one to do-
Stephen LaMarca:
I don't want to rent, I want to buy. I'm already renting people's time to come clean. No, I want to avoid that financial plan.
Benjamin Moses:
The counterpoint is, when I do the laundry, I have to put the clothes in the washer, then manually transfer it to the dryer. It's like, "Why can't I just automate that single center?"
Elissa Davis:
Yes.
Benjamin Moses:
I would automate specific tasks, but not have a piece of automation roaming around the house.
Elissa Davis:
I would just rather have ones that-
Stephen LaMarca:
Why are they two different machines?
Elissa Davis:
... stack on top of each other and then you just pull a little lever, and then it drops the stuff in the washer into the dryer-
Ramia Lloyd:
Consumerism.
Elissa Davis:
... and then, done.
Benjamin Moses:
I want the robot to actually pick up the washer and turn it sideways and drop it into the dryer.
Stephen LaMarca:
Consumerism is how they are less quality than ever. They have more features, but they have a planned obsolescence. They know that more features are going to come out in the future, so they want to make them less repairable, and instead of replacing an individual component, you have to replace an entire assembly and that assembly almost costs as much as the entire machine.
Elissa Davis:
I like the ones that sing.
Ramia Lloyd:
I was just about to say that. Oh, my god.
Stephen LaMarca:
You know it's a German folk song?
Ramia Lloyd:
No.
Stephen LaMarca:
Samsung, the little bop that it plays when your stuff is done is a German folk song. I found the Instagram reel, I'll send it.
Ramia Lloyd:
I need somebody to update mine, so we can play something cool. I don't know what I want it to play, like Megan Thee Stallion or something.
Benjamin Moses:
What would you guys automate in your house? Get rid of humanoid robots or the fact of the physical asset. What is the thing that you-
Stephen LaMarca:
If anybody says cooking, we're going to squabble up.
Elissa Davis:
No, my big thing is-
Benjamin Moses:
[inaudible 00:32:30].
Elissa Davis:
I don't mind doing dishes. Loading the dishwasher is totally fine, I hate unloading the dishwasher. It's my least favorite thing-
Benjamin Moses:
You need a child for that.
Elissa Davis:
... to do. Yeah, yes. Until then, if I could automate that somehow, it would be great. Also, I will say, the article also says that it's for... They want to have everyday household tasks to more specialized roles in healthcare. I would not trust a humanoid robot to distribute my medicine, because it takes the smallest little thing for them to put too many pills in there and then I'm like, "Cool, I'm dead."
Ramia Lloyd:
Or addicted.
Elissa Davis:
Yeah, But I would definitely have-
Benjamin Moses:
I don't know what's wrong with that.
Elissa Davis:
I would definitely have my unloading of my dishwasher automated. That'd be my choice.
Ramia Lloyd:
I'm going to go with Ben and say laundry, but I want the full laundry cycle. I'll put it in the wash, but I need it from the wash to the dryer, and then I want it to fold it-
Stephen LaMarca:
Yes.
Benjamin Moses:
Yeah.
Elissa Davis:
Then stack it away?
Ramia Lloyd:
Then I'll just put it away. I would probably still not put it away.
Stephen LaMarca:
With a 10-year lifespan. I don't want to replace it after five years.
Benjamin Moses:
The trick to avoid folding is just hang your clothes.
Ramia Lloyd:
I still don't want to do that. Like Beyonce said, "I'll cook and I clean, but I still won't fold."
Elissa Davis:
That's fair.
Stephen LaMarca:
I don't clean. Let me tell you.
Benjamin Moses:
[inaudible 00:33:43] a different person.
Ramia Lloyd:
Yeah, but I like it. I like what we're doing here.
Benjamin Moses:
This was a good episode, I appreciate you guys for all the content.
Elissa Davis:
Yep.
Benjamin Moses:
You're going to tell us where they can find more info about us?
Ramia Lloyd:
Amtonline.org/resources, but I think it changed recently, because we talked about this last week-
Stephen LaMarca:
I already forgot it.
Benjamin Moses:
Click on the link.
Ramia Lloyd:
Yeah, just click the link. We'll make it right.
Benjamin Moses:
Bye.
Ramia Lloyd:
Bye.
Stephen LaMarca:
Bing bong.
